I. The Giants Have Beaten the Dodgers More Times Than the Dodgers Have Beaten the Giants.
Over the course of their entire history, the Giants have beaten the Dodgers 1160 times, whereas the Dodgers have beaten the Giants 1139 times. When asking which team is better, there is no better measure than who has won more head to head contests. And the winner of that, ladies and gentleman, is the Giants. Ask Dodger fans they will probably respond with something asinine like "Well, the Dodgers have beaten the Giants more times since the move to California." That's swell! You can carve up history however you want ("Hey, the fact of the matter is, the Giants beat the Dodgers more times this past weekend. So they must be better, right?"), but the fact of the matter is, the Giants won more times. Period. There is no denying it. Sorry.
When confronted with this statistic, most Dodgers fans respond with touting the five World Series rings they have won since moving to California, whereas the Giants have yet to win one. That's fine. The Giants have still won five World Series championships over their history. We only have to win one more to tie it all up. And considered the Giants have been to the World Series twice since the Dodgers last appeared there (and the fact that the Dodgers seem to be NLCS challenged as of late), I would say it is quite possible that the Giants will win a WS before the Dodger win their next one.
II. AT&T Park Is Vastly Superior to Dodger Stadium.
This one just seems unfair. No one in their right mind would say Dodger Stadium is nicer than AT&T Park (Dodgers fans would, but no one in their right mind would be a Dodger fan to begin with). Dodger Stadium rests over the giant parking lot that smells of urine. On a hot day, the pungent smells of filth radiate off the asphalt, making Dodger Stadium one of the most unpleasant places to be in professional sports. Contrast that with AT&T Park: a shimmering example of American architectural achievement, AT&T Park rests over the beautiful San Francisco Bay, with stunning views of East Bay. There is little nicer than sitting at AT&T on a Saturday afternoon watching the Giants.
But don't take my word for. I am obviously biased. When rating all MLB ballparks, Forbes magazine placed Dodger Stadium at number 20 while AT&T claimed the top spot. Dodger Stadium may have history, but that's about it.
Have some garlic fries, Dodger fans. That will turn those frowns upside down.
III. Juan Marichal Beat the Crap out of A Dodger.
I don't normally condone violence. But this one is just too good. On 22 August 1965 the Dodgers were playing the Giants at Candlestick Park. Giants Pitcher Juan Marichal had thrown two balls near the head of Dodgers' outfielder Maury Willis. When it was Marichal's turn to bat, Dodgers' catcher Johnny Rosboro returned throws too close to Marichal's head, with one ball in fact grazing the Giants' ace's ear.
Well, Juan Marichal doesn't take shit. Especially shit from a blueberry.
Juan turned around and beat the living hell out of Rosboro with his bat. Rosboro apparently took off his helmet to argue with Marichal. Marichal responded by whacking the blueberry several times right across his empty dome.The incident resulted in Marichal's suspension. But it was well worth it. Dodger fans still hate Juan Marichal for the incident. For us Giants fans, however, it is a reminder of how you don't screw with the Gents and walk away from it.
Dodger fans remain angry to this day because, despite all their claims to toughness, a Dodger has never come close to getting the up on a Giant like what happened on that day.
IV. Barry Bonds Broke the All-Time Homerun Record as a Giant and at AT&T.
Barry Bonds is amazing. Steroids or no steroids. The man simply is one of the greatest baseball players of all-time, and he is someone the Dodgers love to hate. Why? Because he beat the crap out of them for years. Dodger fans loved to call Barry a cheater during his tenure with the Giants. They refused to acknowledge he is the Homerun King. They always complained about how he was rude with the media.
Yet, now the Dodgers curiously have their own steroid-riddled outfielder. And suddenly that is okay.
No matter: the bottom line is Barry Bonds has more homeruns than any other player in the history of baseball (with the exception of that Japanese guy, but he doesn't count since they play in Little League parks in Japan).
The Dodgers have nothing comparable to put up against the Giants.
And that makes them sad.
IV. Our Classic Song Is Better than Theirs.
"When the Giants Come to Town" is simply better than "D-O-D-G-E-R-S."
Nothing else needs to be said about that.
V. Tommy Lasorda.I am not comparing Lasorda to anyone.
I'm just glad he never was part of the Giants organization.
VI. Giants Fans Actually Show up for Games.
I wrote about this in a previous post. Per capita, more Giants fans show up for their team's home games than do Dodger fans for their home games.
Sad but true.
Maybe if they didn't play over a latrine in a hot ravine they would have more people show up for their games in LA.
VII. The Shot Heard Round the World.
The year is 1951. The Giants were down and out mid-way through the season. The Giants were 13.5 games behind the hated Dodgers and it looked like all was lost. However, the Gents were able to pull off a 16-game winning streak and at the end of the season they forced a three-game tie-breaker playoff.
The Giants won the first game at Ebbets Field. From there, they went back to the Polo Grounds where they would play the last two games of the series. The Dodgers won game 2. So, it all came down to game 3.The Dodgers started off well. By the bottom on the ninth, the Dodgers were ahead 4 runs to 1. The Giants managed to score one run, and ended up with two men on base. The score was 4 to 2, Dodgers favor, when Bobbby Thompson came up to bat. On the second pitch of the at-bat, Thompson ripped the ball into the stands, getting a walk-off three-run homerun. It was called the shot heard round the world. There is probably no other moment in baseball history as iconic as this one. The announcer that day was so shocked and overcome all he could muster to say was "The Giants win the pennant! The Giants win the pennant! The Giants win the pennant!"
In 2001 it was reported that the Giants actually had a coach sitting in the stands with a telescope spying on the Dodgers in order to steal signs. Ever since this was revealed, Dodger fans act as if this moment somehow is cheapened or "doesn't count." Unfortunately, Dodger fans fail to note that sign-stealing was not against the rules of baseball at the time, and was in fact a common practice.
Plus, if your signs get stolen, too f'n bad.
Play harder next time.
This is an extremely outstanding post
ReplyDeleteA rebuttal from a Dodger fan. Part I
ReplyDeleteI. The Giants Have Beaten the Dodgers More Times Than the Dodgers Have Beaten the Giants.
Looking at the numbers, the Giants have won as astonishing 50.5% of their games against the Dodgers while the Dodgers come up short with only 49.5% , not exactly statistically significant if I may say. I believe if you flipped a coin 2299 times, you might garner the same results. The fact remains that the Los Angeles Dodgers have won more games since moving to California and have five championships to show for it. At the same time, the Giants trail only the Cubs and the Indians in consecutive years of futility. Enough said.
To your last point about the Giants winning another championship to TIE the Dodgers before the Dodgers win again. I have to say, when half of your payroll is tied up in Zito and Rowand and the only guy on your team that can hit the ball out of the infield is a fat panda, you might want to take another look at that roster. Good luck next year losing 3-2, again and again.
II. AT&T Park Is Vastly Superior to Dodger Stadium.
Agreed. AT&T, Cingular, Pac-Bell, T-Mobile or whatever your stadium is named this year is nicer than Dodgers Stadium. It is the nicest park I have ever seen a ball game at. My question is, does nine years at Pac-Bell erase all the years at Candlestick? Candlestick may be the number one reason why your team has never won a championship and also the reason it almost moved to Florida, but we will get back to that later. Congratulations on the stadium, it is really nice.
III. Juan Marichal Beat the Crap out of A Dodger.
Stay classy San Francisco. Beating a guy with a bat on a baseball field. Some would call that assault with a deadly weapon; Giant fan calls it a victory to be emulated. Classy.
IV. Barry Bonds Broke the All-Time Homerun Record as a Giant and at AT&T.
Pre-steroid Barry Bonds was the second best player of his generation (see Ken Griffey Jr.) Post-steroid Barry Bonds was just ridiculous. He was a human bobble head who either walked or hit a homerun. It was not fair and I will hate him forever.
Special shout out to the San Francisco Chronicle for taking him down. Well played. My personal favorite anecdote from Game of Shadows: Authors Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada write about the massive growth in Bonds' jersey size (42 to 52), cleat size (10 1/2 to 13) and cap size (7 1/8 to 7 1/4) — even though he is shaving his head bald now.
Could happen to the best of us.
IV. Our Classic Song Is Better than Theirs.
Really? This was a bullet point?
V. Tommy Lasorda.
Again. Really? He won two World Series titles (2 more than the hated ones) and got to the series four times. Sounds like a good deal to me. He still comes to every Dodger game at 82 to get his standing ovation and we still do it. 81 games a year. On cue. Tommy. Standing ovation. That is called respect for history. Try it.
A rebuttal from a Dodger fan. Part II
ReplyDeleteVI. Giants Fans Actually Show up for Games.
Per capita? The Dodgers drew more fans than any team in major league baseball this year. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance) In total. That means that the most people who went to see a baseball game this year came to Dodgers Stadium. Perhaps if your avant-garde architects thought they could draw more fans, they would have built a larger stadium. The last time the Giants had more customers than the Dodgers was 2003 and since 2003, the Dodgers are a pretty consistent top 3. Good teams or bad, we show up because we love the blue. The Giants on the other hand are all over the place. From 2nd to 11th depending on your whims and the crap you put on the field, you may or may not show up. Per capita?
Lastly, to my most pressing and what I believe to be a damning point. The San Francisco Giants were almost moved to Tampa. How can a team that was almost moved ever claim to be top tier? For your reading enjoyment, from: http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nl/sfgiants/sfgiants.html.
1992: Talk began to circulate about a possible move, as the Giants were struggling to finish in fifth place with a 72-90 record, in front of cold and shivering fans at Candlestick Park. Bob Lurie who 16 years earlier saved the Giants sold the team to a group who ere all set to move the team to Tampa. However Major League Baseball was not in favor of the move, and arranged it so a local investment group, led by Peter Magowan, saved the franchise and kept them in the city by the bay. To get fans excited about Giants baseball again one of Magowan's first moves was to sign Barry Bonds two time National League MVP, and son of legendary Giant Bobby Bonds. Magowan would also begin working on building the Giants a new ballpark in a warmer part of the city.
Check and mate.
VII. The Shot Heard Round the World.
Cheating. It is what the Giants need to get by the Dodgers. Then and now.
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ReplyDeleteRazmin -- you prove the point about how stupid Dodger fans are, going on about a 1992 move to Tampa Bay that didn't come to be (so what?) and not addressing the fact that hypocritical Dodger fans embrace steroid users (Gagne, LoDuca, Manny). As to showing up at games, what the original post means, you idiot, is the vast number of unoccupied seats at Dodger Stadium that are sold, artificially inflating the attendance numbers. You're a dingbat and a timewaster. Why don't go you bat around a beach ball, now that your stupid team got dusted by the Phillies?
ReplyDeleteJoshua Prager’s great book documents the Giants cheating, which started in mid July.
ReplyDeleteBut did it help the Giants batters?
Dave Smith of Retrosheet fame gave a presentation on this at the SABR Convention in Milwaukee several years ago.
Before July 19, when the telescope system went into effect, the Giants OPS at home was 810. Afterwards and to the end of the season, it was 761.
Dave’s comments:
To me the data are striking in that home batting performance declined after July 19, while that on the road improved. For pitching
everything got better for the Giants after July 19, especially on
the road where the ERA improved by over a run and a half. I sent
this information to Paul White of Baseball Weekly and he wrote
that it appears the most important signs in the Polo Grounds in
the second half of the season were the ones the Giants' catchers
flashed to their pitchers.
So, did the sign-stealing occur? Probably. Did it help?
Apparently not. Of course, it only has to be true that the sign-
stealing helped them win one more game that they would have lost
in order to end up the season in a tie. My point is simple:
there is no evidence in the data that sign-stealing was a
significant factor in the great comeback of the 1951 Giants.
Remember that the Giants' record did not begin its dramatic
improvement until August 12.
http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/SmithD/1951%20Pennant%20Race.pdf#search=%22Dave%20Smith%201951%20Giants%20stealing%20signs%22
Let me get this straight, you not seeing the relevance of your ownership wanting to move your team from San Francisco because the fans were not supporting the team makes me stupid? Whatever you want to say about it, it is a pretty damning point and one that isn’t brought up nearly enough. The Dodgers ownership has never threatened to move the team for lack of support because the team is apart of the community and has been supported through thick and thin since it moved to Los Angeles. You probably cannot make that same argument.
ReplyDeleteAs for steroid users, are we not all hypocrites? San Francisco fans were chanting steroids at Manny this year. Pot calling the kettle black…a little bit? We all love our own steroid users and hate all other teams steroid users. It is what we baseball fans call par for the course. There was no need to address that because it is an implicit fact.
Lastly about stadium attendance numbers, you once again call me an idiot, most likely because you lack the diction to come up with a more congenial term. There are unoccupied seats in every stadium. Every stadium keeps their records the same way. I have been to plenty of Giants games and there was no lack of empty seats. Facts are facts. We sell tickets. People go to games. We have more empty seats because we have more seats. Empty seats that have witnessed two straight NLCS series while Zito, Rowand and the Panda ride bikes along the Embarcadero and Lincecum and Cain have drinks in the Marina. Getting off on the Dodgers losing in the playoffs is all you have because your lack of success on the field is assured. Enjoy another season at Pac-Bell looking up to see the Dodger flag flying high above the Giant flag…and those pesky Rockies too.
Also if I may, a bullet point that was missing and needs to be included in the original post. The Dodgers douche bag owners. Divorce or not, they have douche written all over them. I am sure you will write that we deserve them but just remember, they are from Boston and their douche has a smell of its own.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh man I love it when Dodger fans get all defensive!
ReplyDeleteAlso let it be noted that aside from all other things presented here... Los Angeles is the worst city in America full of either fake struggling actors/ waiters and thugs.
ReplyDeleteI was looking for information on Why Being A Giants Fan Is Better than Being A Dodgers Fan and before ending in your blog I watched like 10 sites about viagra online, the web is full with that topic. But anyways the info on your site help me very much, thanks for the post and have a nice day.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all if you are a giant fan forget about what happend in new york you have nothing to do with that becasue if you were around back then you wouldnt have cared becasue your team would have been in new york not san fran ( oh too bad guess that means you cant take ownership to bobby thompson's homerun. and im not a hypocrite for saying this as a dodger fan i awknolegde that jackie robinson was part of brooklyn so I cant include that on the same level in my own personal fanhood with koufax and kirk gibson because jackie never played for LA. If you are a giant fan commenting on this post shut the fuck up about the new york days and forget about your 1905 championship, that is new york history not your history. So based on that lets look what the temas have done since the move. The dodgers have 9 pennants and 5 titles while the giants have 4 pennants and one title. clearly the dodgers are the better.... and yes all time including the new york days it is 6 each for championships, but it is irrelevant for our fanhood. Giants won the ny rivalry and there is nothing i can do about it and the dodgers are winning the california rivalry, which what matters in this discussion. and dont talk about marichal's anger management problem when he cowardly hit rosboro with a bat, that is one of the most disgraceful and inhumane acts in baseball history. marichal is a coward. And yes at&t park is a 100x better then dodger stadium when it comes to looks. but its not about that its about the performance on the field. i would rather have the dodgers tradition and world series vicotires and gibsons walk off homerun over your stadium and your lack of postseason play. enjoy at&t park and the one and onely championship banner, but you can include the new york titles if ur feeling sorry for urselves. the dodgers dont include the '55 title if you havent noticed yet at our stadium. and as far as steroids, we dont accept it like you say. we took down mannywood before he even left for chicago, behavior like that isnt accepted by one of the most prestigious basefall franchises. lets face it giants since newyork barely have a pulse while the dodgers, even though through a dry spell, have given LA fans more to cheer about than the giants and their pathetic fans up north
ReplyDeleteMike... keep your "vicotires".
ReplyDeleteSeriously, how can you write about the Giants "lack of postseason play"?
Since the Reagan era ended... The Giants have THREE National League Championships. The dodgers have ZERO N.L. titles. The Giants have a World Series Championship banner about to be flown over AT&T Park. The dodgers have a... um... divorce settlement being flown over their heads.
Unless you were born BEFORE 1966, you've seen the dodgers win two World series.
So, in 45 years of baseball, the dodgers have won ONE more than the Giants. It's been almost a quarter century since a title was won in Los Angeles by a team other than the Lakers.
(since you choose to negate the New York Era... I choose to negate what happened before my life time.)
I may not condone what Marichal did... but it's FAR more acceptable than the constant reports of violence and abuse that stream from that PIT at Chavez Ravine.